Germany and Argentina – ‘what the hell has happened!?’

By | November 24, 2022

Germany and Argentina's defeats are the biggest talking points of the World Cup so far with both nearing meltdowns after opening match shocks to Saudi Arabia and Japan respectively.

James Horncastle, Rafa Honigstein and Adam Leventhal discuss if there's any way back for both after the first round of fixtures.

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#worldcup #germany #argentina

So we're here by the pool Um this feels good I think last night For you RAF I wouldn't have thought felt Particularly good with Germany that the The headline of your piece what the hell Happened have you got the answers Uh I think so but uh just to say it Doesn't feel good it doesn't feel any Better this morning if anything it feels Maybe worse A lot of Germany players were talking Yesterday And the big takeaway was that there were Many reasons why a game that they had Control that they felt was almost theirs Slipped Away In A catastrophic fashion People were pointing at uh Missed chances up front they should have Been a little more more efficient more Ruthless they are say you know all the German stereotypes weren't and weren't On show the defending at least for the Second goal was absolutely comical And in between what happened was that They lost their way a little bit Japan Pushed up a bit They put them under pressure and you'd Expect Germany to pass through them and Stay calm but they're actually little by Little lost control through Wayward Passing through some people not showing Up as a good one put it very critically Manuel Neuer said there was enough Movement

And Neuer and kundon even seems so to Question the quality of some of the Players on the pitch which Shows you in my view that The big takeaway was that this team Realized in a very painful way that they Can't fully trust each other And that boats really badly for for Sunday so this is this is more than a Wake-up call which feels a little bit More like we're heading towards the the First team meltdown or or is that not The case Yeah it's definitely more of a wake-up Call I think it's waking up and finding That the house is already on fire right And what can you do not maybe not much Um the fact that it is Spain not a more Amenable opponent in the second round The fact that Spain come into this on a On a real high It's really set up for For Germany to get knocked out on Sunday I'm pretty pessimistic I'm hoping that They will find Some sense of confidence But it's hard to know where it's coming From when some of the doubts seem to be So fundamental We are by the pool and RAF has yet to Have a dip since we've been here he Might not get that traffic So but I think it was quite interesting What you were saying about

The players talking a lot after the game I was at Argentina Saudi Arabia All of the players walk through the mix Zone they didn't want to speak to the Media the only one who did was Messi Messi basically took responsibility took Accountability spoke to the rights Holders but also to the written press For about five minutes and they kind of Closed ranks whereas it felt like you've Got A bit of everything from all of the all Of the Germans who played part of that Last night yeah a lot a lot of people Stopped Muller stopped Kimmy stopped Neuer stopped goretzka stopped gunduan Was the most critical maybe because he'd Actually been the best player until he Had to come off and then he saw the Whole thing unfold from from the bench And I think it's some level he must have Felt you know what what am I doing here On the bench when You can see what's going on of course he Refined from criticizing flick directly He says he was asked about why he was Taken off if he had an explanation he Said um now the coach doesn't owe me an Explanation it's not a problem But I think to compound everything we talked About flick also didn't help his team by Taking off gundwan and taking off Musiala who

Germany's two best players And by the end of the game they had Full crook up front and mukuku both had Never played for Germany before in a Competitive game they had Mario guts who Hadn't played for Germany in five years And just all looked a bit desperate and A bit shambolic these Miroslav closer Not not available I spoke to him before before the World Cup and he is in great shape But No he loves his fishing Stuff closer yeah when he was Lazio Striker he would go off to Lago brachano Where Tom Cruise got married and he Would just fish some freshwater trout Um so I don't know if that's keeping him In shape that's yeah maybe that's the Reason why I stayed away from Qatar Because I don't think that's much not great Fishing fishing Point of view on this German situation And we'll talk about the the off the Field which obviously then transcends on On field with the armbands and the Protests and stuff in a moment's time But Did you see this coming was this was This building were were there tensions Coming into the tournament or is this Just like ah right this is just set fire Straight away

I don't think you can say it was coming There were question marks about the Fullback positions and they had an Effect on the game because Sula played Out wide as a very safe option but then That necessitated schlotterbeck coming In as a center-back and he looked Anything but safe in my view and you Hadn't hadn't played well But no And as Mueller said you know if Germany Win this game Which she easily can then you'll find a Lot of good things that they've done in This game so it wasn't as if they were Bad throughout yeah it's almost as if They threw it away from a position of Strength which then makes it worse in my View because it's basically The admission or the realization that You weren't beaten by somebody else you Beat yourself And when you do that Then you start looking you know why why Did this happen then you start thinking Okay this guy did that and why didn't we Do this and this is almost worse than Getting beaten by a side that's just a Little bit better than you or sort of Edge you out or whatever this this is Germany Auto destructing are we in Danger James of getting too focused on On the big guns I'm not giving the Credit to the other sides like Japan

Like Saudi Arabia you saw in action against Argentina in a very similar situation Coming from behind and winning 2-1 I Think it's only natural because just Being in Doha for 48 hours if you drive into the capital On the skyscrapers there you see these Big awnings which depicts mbappe Messi Uh the stars of the tournament and And so you're naturally drawn to the Star power Um that there is here I mean for the Last 12 years this whole tournament has Been built Around that you think of the qatari's Investment in Paris Saint-Germain who Have they signed Messi Neymar mbappe the Three stars of the tournament they're Expected to be And so yeah I think in some respects The attention hasn't fallen on Japan Going into the tournament it hasn't Fallen on Saudi Arabia despite how Outrageously handsome Ave Renard is Um but for me I mean the Argentina Saudi Arabia game was the first one that I Reported on since I got here And you really saw how a crowd can help Turn a game you know we saw Matt's Latest piece kind of traveling with the Saudi Arabia fans across the border to The game in Lucille And when Messi gave Argentina the lead

The Argentina fans there They were happy about it but it was Almost like they were expecting it Was when Saudi Arabia equalized The fans there were not expecting it They couldn't believe it you really felt The Jubilation that they were Experiencing and for five minutes They really believed and they helped Generate more momentum for the team Which led to the second goal and so that Was a great experience to be here to see That Um to see how Home Advantage almost can Help Saudi Arabia I mean not in the it Wouldn't help Japan but certainly Saudi Arabia in this tournament and I don't Think you really appreciate that unless You're you're here Um to to feel the noise so to speak that Was not a plug for one of your books Raph it should have been enough In terms of Um you know another side you you were Last night at the at the um at the final Game of the day between Belgium and Canada I suppose it's a similar theme Isn't it that you know an underdog Actually Almost being given respect because they Are then they have players of a higher Caliber Why are you bulking I'm because

This is different because this is Belgium actually being just bad okay Fine okay fine whereas Germany weren't Bad but carry on well Argentina weren't Bad as well you know in the first half Of that game against Saudi Arabia But let's go back to Belgium What was surprising about that was We talk about the golden generation how This is their last chance there's a real Lack of cohesion yeah in the team it Looked particularly in the final third That they hadn't played with each other A lot and okay romelu Lukaku was in the Stands he's not even on the bench at the Moment we'll have to see whether he Actually plays at all for Belgium at the World Cup but Mishi batwai is a player That Kevin De bruyne is familiar with Eden Hazard is familiar with and okay he Scored what was the winning goal But pretty much all of the actions from Then onwards Yeah for someone like Kevin de bruyne de Bruyne was embarrassed to get them out Of the match award afterwards saying I Haven't played up to my standards kind Of we weren't on the same wavelengths Um and Just the kind of pattern of this world Cup is The big European teams not performing I Mean apart from France who fell behind Against Australia and then roared back

Apart from Spain the others have really Been a bit of a letdown England was okay Are you not counting them as European I Was flying so I didn't see that so yeah